THE LOVE THAT DARE NOT SPEAK ITS NAME

A young man living in a nearby town wrote his beloved fiancée a Valentine’s Day card.  In it he wrote, “My love for you knows no bounds.  I would climb the highest mountain, swim the widest ocean, or fight the most ferocious beast to be with you and if it doesn’t rain, I will see you Saturday.  Happy Valentine’s Day Love Frank.”

I cannot ignore the irony that just prior to Valentine’s Day our House of Commons, in its infinite wisdom, has chosen to pass a law to amend the human rights code to extend special protection to trans-gendered individuals.  In case you are not sure what that term means, it is people who being unhappy with the gender of their birth, have undergone a process of one sort or another to change their gender.  If Bill C-389, a private members bill sponsored by NDP MP Bill Siksay clears the Senate, ‘transgender’ will now be listed alongside other basic human characteristics such as race, religion, gender, age etc.  Let me be clear that I believe every Canadian should be treated with equal dignity and respect.  No person EVER should be subjected to hate crimes, violence or derision.  That is not the issue here.  The issue is; what are the consequences when we as a society start normalizing unnatural behaviour?  Make no mistake about it, there is nothing natural about a sex change!  It has only become even possible in the last few years as the result of extreme surgery and ongoing hormone therapy.

Critics of Bill C- 389 have dubbed it the ‘bathroom bill’ because it will give trans-gendered individuals access to gender specific washrooms or change rooms.  They have posed the legitimate concern about having trans-gendered former males in a girls locker room. (Or gay women/men in the boys locker room for that matter).  This is not a hypothetical possibility but a very real concern in a world already marred by epidemic levels of sexual abuse, child pornography and the like.

Then there is the fact that school sex education programs will have to promote an even broader description of ‘gender identity’ to include heterosexuality, homosexuality and trans-gendered sexuality.  Children as early as kindergarten may be introduced to these concepts as schools struggle to make concessions for an ever-changing definition of the family.  What is the right age to start suggesting to our little children that perhaps God made a mistake with their gender and they should start saving their allowance for a sex change?

I am sorry, but we as the world’s most ‘tolerant’ nation have gone mad!  We have been leading the world in this ill-conceived rush to make deviant sexuality normal.  We were one of the first nations to legalize same-sex marriage and now we are leading the way again. KEY

Dark Blue-  Same-sex marriage legalized
Medium Blue – Other type of partnership (or unregistered cohabitation)
Light Blue – Same-sex marriage recognized, but not performed
Gray – Homosexuality legal but same-sex unions not recognized
Yellow – Homosexuality Illegal with minimal penalty
Light Orange – Illegal with Large Penalty
Orange – Illegal with Life in Prison
Brown –  Illegal with Death Penalty

Most Canadians aren’t even aware what is happening right under their noses.   The media has largely ignored this with a yawn as Canada takes a run at becoming the world’s most perverse nation.   What is the next level of ‘sexual orientation’ that Canada will legalize?  Bigamy?  Bestiality?  Pedophilia? The big argument of course is that gays, lesbians and trans-gender are born that way and there is nothing they can do about their orientation.  This is a world class, universally accepted lie.  In 1973 Psychiatrist Dr Robert L Spitzer was instrumental in de-listing homosexuality as a mental illness by the American Psychiatric Association.  However in 1999 this same doctor conducted a study into whether it was possible to change one’s sexual orientation.  To his surprise he discovered that 67% of those that went through reorientation therapy were able to completely convert from homosexuality to heterosexuality.  His conclusion was; “Contrary to conventioned wisdom, some highly motivated individuals, using a variety of change efforts, can make substantial change in multiple indicators of sexual orientation, and achieve good heterosexual functioning…. mental health professionals should stop moving in the direction of banning therapy that has, as a goal, a change in sexual orientation. Many patients, provided with informed consent about the possibility that they will be disappointed if the therapy does not succeed, can make a rational choice to work toward developing their heterosexual potential and minimizing their unwanted homosexual attractions.” Not coincidentally, those in his study that found success were almost all as a result of faith based programs.  Here are a couple of links to his findings:

http://www.narth.com/docs/spitzer3.html

http://www.narth.com/docs/evidencefound.html

In 1895 when Oscar Wilde was on trial for sodomy he referred to the love of an older man for a younger man as ‘the love that dare not speak its name’.  He mentioned its name and was convicted, spending 2 years in prison under hard labour.  Today, the love that dare not speak its name is the love God and his people have for gays and lesbians. Unfortunately, our message has been misunderstood or miscommunicated and as a result the church has grown conspicuously silent on this issue.  The reason is simple; it is for fear of being branded; homophobes, intolerant, hatemongers, bigots… or worse yet landing them in prison.  Unless something changes, that day is coming.  Don’t forget to visit me.

We get this bum rap, that if we oppose same-sex marriage or the homosexual lifestyle, then we hate the individuals.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  On the contrary we love them enough to tell them that what they are doing is sinful and that God has a better life for them.  And for the record, we are not singling out homosexuality alone, since on the sexual ledger, the list should include adultery, pornography, divorce and remarriage, pre-marital sex, lustful thoughts… did I miss any of you?   The scripture teaches, that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and… that there are none righteous, no not one.

Romans 5:8 provides the solution; But God demonstrates His own LOVE toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Far from hate, it is actually loving people enough to be unwilling to leave them in a sinful and lost state.   For me, that is the love that dare not speak its name, but needs to.

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40 Responses to THE LOVE THAT DARE NOT SPEAK ITS NAME

  1. Bruno says:

    Homosexuality has definitely been the hottest issue in the last decade in regards to Christianity and is definitely one of the first question anyone asks: “but what’s your view on Homosexuality!”

    I don’t know if my question will be clear enough, but what do you answer when a non-Christan asks you that, because I’m sure they do. What do you tell them so that they understand. I mean… how do you approach the subject so that they don’t immediately shut down, label you as close-minded and move on. I understand that it’s a mix of your post from two weeks ago, that churches water down what is right and wrong, but I always find this subject really touchy. These people have normally been subject to so much hatred, that I find it hard to voice the point without sounding too harsh.

    I hope I make sense :)

  2. Victoria says:

    I think you tell them how you feel.From your own perspective-
    I think MOST homsexuality is deviant behavior.
    I think that God disapproves of indulging in sins of the flesh exactly the way he does when 2 people have sex before marriage.

    However, I believe 2 people of the same sex can find love with each other, and it might often be MISTAKEN for lust.

    Being a hairdresser, I often made good male friends that were gay…I seemed to have a lot of fun with them as they had colorful lives and personalities.

    I never judged them, and treated them as my equal,and they never once tried to convert me!

    That being said, I do however have a small personal issue that came up recently.
    (It really surprises me to find how my life seems to coincide with Pastor Marks blog!)

    My son came in to brush his teeth while I was sitting on the toilette peeing.

    It’s not a big deal,he had to catch his bus,otherwise he would wait for me to be done!
    He asked me…”you pee like that??”
    I said to him, “of course, I am a GIRL, I don’t have a penis!”
    then he turned to me and said “Belinda does…” referring to one of my good friends 12 year old daughter!!!!
    Last summer there was an incident where she had cornered him in the bathroom while I was visiting.She forced herself on him and made him kiss her and pulled her pants down.Jamie told me about the kissing… but it took him 3 months to tell me what he had seen in that bathroom experience!

    We had already told her mother that day about what had happened and she was lectured about it in front of everyone…(she has never done it again) What on earth do I tell my son as to why God made her this way?

    My neighbor has not told me about this,I don’t see the girl in therapy and she IS treated and dressed like a girl, but she has male parts.

    My son is pretty confused,and so am I.
    What do I do now?

  3. Betty says:

    How interesting to see, at how fast this young man Frank’s love shrinks, when it comes to rain!!!

    It really is sad to see, so many people, trying to change the outside, when the most important change comes from the inside.

    In the last years, Jesus has helped me, to Love the people, for who they are and still hate the sin, because He Loves them first and hates the sin.

    Those years, when I was in depression, I had a very hard time, eccepting myself, for who I was, because I thought I was not good enough,so that also made life very hard in other situations and today I can Praise You Jesus, for helping me to understand You better and my highlight of last year was,Jesus showed me in a very powerful way, many times, how much He Loves me and everyone else and how important I am to Him.

  4. Steve says:

    Betty, you’ve got alot of love. And I think God is pleased with you.
    God is showing me more and more that truth without love doesn’t do a whole lot. If we don’t love then we are sinning. But like Pastor Mark said, allowing sin is not loving at all.

  5. Patricia says:

    Before I start I would like to say something to myself but write it down so you know what I am thinking (Lord, may the words of my mouth and meditations of my heart come from only you my Lord and Holy Redeemer. Amen)

    This is such a touchy subject that is more out in the open each and every year. TV shows normalize this Pastor Mark, and other things such as murders, and raping or abducting of children, or young women each and every day. I am just wanting it to be shut off. I do not want to feed this normalacy of the sickness. I am against human trafficking and many other things.

    But I am with Betty. I believe we should love the sinner and hate the sin. And what I mean by hating the sin is not take part of it. Do not condone it in your beliefs just because they say it is okay. We have to become more grounded in Jesus Christ. Respect and love them, but despise the sin.

    But I will say to you what I did for my Daughter as she grew up. I told her what I thought only once. And if she was not breaking any laws or hurting anyone, then I would let her continue making a mistake until she realized her mistake and corrected it. Because sometimes children have trouble differentiating what is healthy in a friendship if we jump in too soon. She never had this type of orientation, but she did indicate that she knew many who were. She also told me that it was a seeking of an identity or love from someone else that put her friends in these relationships. She told me that many of these friends were completely straight now and would be horrified if anyone knew about it. I do not believe that all sexual orientation is a sign that a child or young adult is definitely gay or lesbian. But I know those kids she hung out with were the same kids I took cupcakes to to school. The same kids I tried to teach to read on a voluntary basis. So you see the best way I believe to be a Christian to them is do not break your faith walk, but do love them. And in your own time pray for them and that your example may have them in turn change their minds and show them where true acceptance lies, in loving teachings of Jesus Christ our Lord.

    In regards to other sexual orientations, etc, on the map. I would like to say I have a roommate on the basis of helping one another for friendship. But Christians and others have conjured their own opinions of our relationship. It used to bother me, the gossip. But then in prayer I had a great calm over me when I asked God if he minded me helping my fellow friend. We are not to walk alone and be no support to one another here on this Earth. We are to support one another in the love that Jesus Christ has taught us to give. I would recommend anyone else reaching out and helping a fellow friend. For all you know, you are a gift that God has put together because he wants to show you that you have purpose and should not be alone just because you are not in a relationship.

  6. jdude says:

    “Then there is the fact that school sex education programs will have to promote an even broader description of ‘gender identity’ to include heterosexuality, homosexuality and trans-gendered sexuality. Children as early as kindergarten may be introduced to these concepts as schools struggle to make concessions for an ever-changing definition of the family. What is the right age to start suggesting to our little children that perhaps God made a mistake with their gender and they should start saving their allowance for a sex change?”
    Regardless of the fact that I find myself in disarray when I hear contemporary theology tied to modern liberbalism, we all, as tax payers, help fund particular educational programs. Heck, you and I and many other Christians, Muslims, etc. help fund abortions all the time. One could very well dive into the philosophical arguments for taxation and thus the philosophical arguments for the idea of exchange (in effect money, or the necessity to combat double coincidence of wants). I would argue that the church has more work to do in understanding the merits (or demerits) of the state and taxation.
    Bill C-389 fits ideally with our liberal values. In our liberal society the law is reflective of the personal autonomy argument forwarded by Professor Rawls, Berlin, Rorty and many older historical figures such as John Stuart Mill all the way back to Thomas Hobbes. In our case, the personal autonomy argued is funneled through the ‘harm principle’ touted by Mill. To liberals, and much of our society, people should not be held for a ‘victimless crime’. I would not call myself a liberal in the political sense, moreover I do not view the state as legitimate, however, those who partake in the liberal democratic values voiced throughout Canada espouse weak political foundations in arguing for the harm principle in particular circumstances and not others.
    “Most Canadians aren’t even aware what is happening right under their noses. The media has largely ignored this with a yawn as Canada takes a run at becoming the world’s most perverse nation. What is the next level of ‘sexual orientation’ that Canada will legalize? Bigamy? Bestiality? Pedophilia?”
    It’s entirely possible for the media to ignore, or potentially promote, many ideas that are contrary to Biblical teachings/understandings/moral laws, however, Canadians have a choice to find out this information for themselves. They have the right to any legislation, to any hearings, to virtually any public motions contemplated. Ignorance and apathy run deep in liberal democracies, this is undoubtedly a priori in the study of politics.
    Under the definition of ‘sexual orientation’ I do not think that Bigamy, Bestiality and Pedophilia apply.

  7. Brim says:

    Pastor Mark,

    I must confess I was a bit surprised regarding your lenient blog posting to the recent passing of the private members Bill C-389. I thought fire and brimstone would be the order of the day. But, rather you displayed Love and acceptance towards the same sex and transgendered communities. With arms wide open we welcome each other, Brother, sister, homeless or sinner.

    This is slightly oppositional to your churches Doctrinals Statement of faith. whereas, people engageing in same sex unions and transgendered individuals are subject to disciplinary action and scrutiny under the discretion of the church body.

    Refer: Moral issues Church of the Rock;

    Church of the Rock believes that the Bible teaches absolute values of right and wrong as taught in the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere in Scripture and that sin is incompatible with biblical standards and values. Church of the Rock also believes that behavior contrary to these standards and values is called sin, and that there are consequences for wrong choices and blessings for following these standards and values. The assessment of behavior as being contrary to these standards and values and the determination of the consequences for such behaviour within the context of the Church, is in the entire discretion of the governing elders of the church.Behavior that contravenes these values and standards includes but is not limited to the following:

    No.13, MORAL ISSUES, Item l), reads:

    Same-sex unions or unions involving transsexual and transgendered individuals; practices and relationships, promotion or support of such activity or organization (Leviticus 18; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 10:8

    Subject to:

    Disciplinary Action: probation, monitoring, loss of membership, volunteer privileges, termination from staff or disfellowship (denied participation in church group activities)

  8. Sally says:

    In reply to Brims comment…as Christians, our lives are to be examples to others, normal gender specific, a man or a woman, not any thing else; hence the reason for moral standards in the church. And when we join the church we are required to live up to these standards. Therefore people who join Church of the Rock know what is expected and then the leadership has the right to correct any behaviour contrary to these standards. These are Gods Standards as set out in the Word of God by God himself.
    As Christians we are called to be light in a dark world, not conform to it.
    Like Pastor Mark says we Christians get a bum rap if we oppose anything that is contary to what the secular world believes and if we should our opinions we are called homophromic and commit “hate crimes”. And God forbid if we speak out against anything we end up in court being fined or in jail.
    Yes it is time for the Church to speak up and be counted even if it does mean persecution and jail for us.

  9. Mark Hughes says:

    Brim
    There is nothing oppositional about the genuine acceptance Church of the Rock extends to all people. Re-read my post. I specifically stated that we are to love people too much to leave them in a sinful state that contravenes God’s word, and that the list of sexual sin is never limited to homosexuality. But like the critics of the church you omitted the rest of them when you cut and pasted that section of our statement of faith making it look like we were somehow singling homosexuality out. The bible has a very long list of activities that God himself regards as immoral. Read ‘em and weep.

    a) Abusive behaviour (Leviticus 18; 1 Timothy 5:22; 1 John 3:3)

    b) Breach of trust or confidence (Matthew 5:3, 19:18; Philippians 4:8; 1 John 3:3)

    c) Criminal activity (Exodus 20:12-17; Matthew 5:37; 1 John 3:3)

    d) Extra-marital sexual relationships (adultery) (Exodus 20:1; Leviticus 18; Romans 7:3; 1 Corinthians 5:1-2, 9-13; Ephesians 5:3-5; Hebrews 13:4)

    e) Gambling behaviour – habitual, compulsive or addictive (Proverbs 15:27a)

    f) Lying, deceit, or dishonesty (Matthew 5:37, 19:18; Ephesians 4:25-29)

    g) Occultic practices; adherence to or participation in occultic activities (Deuteronomy 18:10-11; Acts 13:6-9; Galatians 5:19-21)

    h) Participation or involvement in pornography, including reading, viewing, or listening to pornographic material (Philippians 4:8; Colossians 3:5; 1 John 3:3)

    i) Premarital sexual relationships (fornication) (Acts 15:29; Ephesians 5:3-5; Hebrews 13:4)

    j) Physical aggression (Leviticus 18; 1 Timothy 5:22; 1 John 3:3)

    k) Racist conduct or expressing racist viewpoints (James 2:1-4; Colossians 3:10-11)

    l) Same-sex unions or unions involving transsexual and transgendered individuals; practices and relationships, promotion or support of such activity or organization (Leviticus 18; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 10:8)

    m) Substance abuse, including the abuse of alcohol and drugs (Philippians 4:8; 1 Timothy 5:22; 1 John 3:3)

    n) Sexual assault, abuse, harassment (Leviticus 18; 1 Timothy 5:22; 1 John 3:3)

    o) Theft or fraud (Exodus 20:15, 17; Matthew 5:37)

    p) Use of profane or abusive language (Ephesians 4:29; Colossians 3:8)

    q) Other behaviours or activities deemed inconsistent with biblical moral standards.

    But do not misinterpret this as a hateful dismissal of people involved in these activities but as an identification of God’s expectation for us as Christian people. If we fail to delineate these moral standards, we under Canada’s current legal environment would not have the right to require even our staff or leadership to live up to them. We make no apologizes for God’s standards. Jesus Himself never compromised on them but managed to love the sinner nonetheless. “Go your way and sin no more” He would say. We do our best to do the same. It really is possible to love the sinner and hate the sin.

  10. victoria says:

    Well….I am a little disappointed that not one person could comment on my very real and discomforting situation, I described 7 comments ago.
    Even Pastor Mark has deftly avoided any explanation to why God made her this way.

    Frankly, I think it is none of my business as to how they bring their daughter up,and what is under her clothes-this matters not.

    I love my friend and her family regardless of this situation-we addressed the bad behavior and now 3 months later my little 7 year old boy is still wondering why God made her this way!

    Since no one from the church of the rock, or this blog wants to give me advice,I took the trouble of looking up what it means.

    Hermaphrodite was used to describe any person incompatible with the biological gender binary, but has recently been replaced by ‘INTERSEX’ in medicine.

    Humans with typical reproductive organs but atypical clitoris/penis are called pseudohermaphrodites in medical literature.

    Pseudohermaphroditism also refers to a human possessing both the clitoris and testicles.[5]

    People with intersex conditions sometimes choose to live exclusively as one sex or the other, using clothing, social cues, genital surgery, and hormone replacement therapy to blend into the sex they identify with more closely.

    Some people who are intersex, such as some of those with androgen insensitivity syndrome, outwardly appear completely female or male already, without realizing they are intersex.

    Intersex is thought by some to be caused by unusual sex hormones; the unusual hormones may be caused by an atypical set of sex chromosomes.

    THAT is the scientific explanation.

    Why did God create this situation? What do we tell our children so they can cope?

    This child is not sinning,but was simply born this way.

    We are to love all.

    Anyway,maybe someone can muster up the courage to talk about this very real and pretty common situation.

  11. Mark Hughes says:

    Victoria
    It is a little hard for for us to know what your son may or may not have seen in the bathroom. Transgender conditions are very rare and not common at all. Your son is only 7, the last things he needs is a biology lesson. If he were my son I would tell him that some people have deformed parts and wouldn’t even suggest that Belinda is a hermaphrodite. That will be way too confusing.
    What is really important is that you train your son to avoid bathroom situations entirely with other people. We all need to guard our children in an overly protective way in an overly-perverse world. There is way too much at stake when it comes to the delicate sexual psyches of our children.

  12. Brim says:

    Back at you Mark,

    I didn’t ommit anything. I intentionally left them out. The scope of the blog is transgendered sexual orientation and that is the emphasis of my post. The rest don’t apply. It is quite easy to dilute the issue and ad hominem but I prefer to stick to the point. Plus people have eyes they can see, and ears to hear. I know what I see and hear.

  13. Sally says:

    I agree Pastor Mark that we can hate the sin and not the sinner. However some people no matter what you say will turn everything around to say that Christians are haters or bigots etc. They have preconceived ideas and have hardened their hearts to the truth. When it comes to being Christian these days it is open season on us. I too may be one that you will have to visit in prison for speaking such truth, but it would be worth int in the end when we stand before God the Righteous Judge and He says “Well done my good and faithful servant.”
    Again Pastor Mark thank you for standing strong in the faith and speaking truth to us.

  14. Kay says:

    It is really strange but my daughter has also learned recently of a boy who wants to be a girl. This child decided to be a girl at the age of 6! I doubt that! This is what is happening in Winnipeg.

  15. audrey says:

    What I can’t seem to understand is why some Bible believing Christians are having such a difficult time with the Word of God. We debate and argue with each other but at the end of the day – it is clearly written in the Word of God. God didn’t make up these rules so our lives would be miserable – He loves us. We live in a fallen world and because of that, there are many imperfections. We all have crosses to bear – whether it be physical, emotional, mental or something else it is something that with God’s strength we can overcome. We don’t have all of the answers, and may not ever understand – this side of heaven – But I think that’s where Faith comes in. Sure we can say it isn’t fair – but as I tell my boys “if life was fair…we would loose”. One of the coolest things about being a Christian is hearing testimonies of people who have overcome the most incredible obsticals in life – things we couldn’t imagine going through, but these people, with God – did – and continue to do…everyday. The Bible acknowledges these struggles, and Great is their reward! It is our job as Christians to help each other through our trials because compared to Heaven, this suffering is not to be compared.
    “FOR I CONSIDER THAT THE SUFFERINGS OF THIS PRESENT TIME ARE NOT WORTHY TO BE COMPARED WITH THE GLORY THAT SHALL BE REVEALED IN US” Romans 8:18, and verse 21 says “BECAUSE THE CREATION ITSELF ALSO WILL BE DELIVERED FROM BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD”. And down to verse 28, AND WE KNOW THAT ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD TO THOSE WHO LOVE GOD, TO THOSE WHO ARE CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSES”.
    We sometimes meditate too long on the problem and forget that God offers solutions to the messes we find ourselves in. God is love, and it is not His will that anyone should perish. But as long as we continue to make up our own rules along the way we slowly edge God out.
    It’s very strange, when I was growing up, we were told that “at the end of the world … this and that will happen”. I could hardly believe what I was hearing – well, here we are. The truth has become so distorted, and I pray that we open our eyes and start to see things as God sees them.

  16. Paul Stanley says:

    I would say Victoria that your question applies to any part of nature or creation that is messed up or not perfect. What answer do you give to a child who sees another with no legs, no arms, paralyzed with cerebral palsy, and so on. I would take my child back to the beginning of the Bible and show them where God warned Adam that to disobey God would really mess things up. God, like us, is looking fw to the day when all things will be new again, and the consequences of Adams choice will no longer make even the earth itself groan. Please note that I am not saying because of the sin of this child you describe, or even the parents, but the brokenness of life as we know it due to the initial sin of Adam.
    tough question to address, and as was mentioned, one you probably wish you didn’t have to answer till your son was much older. :)

  17. Evelyn Bennett says:

    When is it not okay to say enough is enough?

    I am really surprised that they have not legalized beastiality as of yet. They might as well wipe the slate clean and create their own 10 commandments.

    God never once said that life was meant to be easy. He knew that it would be interesting to see who of mankind truly thought that God was meant to be respected for creating the universe and mankind.

    If he did not love us that much; we as mankind would not be here.

  18. James Slyk says:

    I agree with the comments about the latest on the “protected” list. At my job one of my co-workers divorced his wife last Spring, came out of the closet and decided I was the “object of his affections”. From that point on it was non-stop with asking me out on dates, taking (unauthorized?)pictures of me with his cell phone camera, then saying “oooh, Jim! I’ve got you on my wallpaper!”, and (even worse) trying to dance with me while I was trying to do my job. The more I told him to get lost, the more he persisted. He seems to have settled down now but I am still very uncomfortable around him and pray I can get a better job some place else.

    • Patricia says:

      It is a very tricky situation I find with the inter-office politics of someone that does this sort of thing. They read that they have right, but forget about the rights of the other individual that they work with sometimes James. I went through this at the office I worked at way back. The person felt that they should share what they do in bed together. This was making me very uncomfortable. I think that they were trying to have me react so they could say I was infringing on their rights because they did not like that I was a Christian.

      Otherwise, are you very good at your job and other people where you work? How do they feel about this situation? Maybe the office manager should sit this fellow down and tell them that the office frowns upon inter-office relationships and wishes to have them ensure that they will end this quest for your affections if you otherwise enjoy your job.

      I have you in my prayers.

  19. Karen L says:

    I still struggle with the fact that so many people try to “pick and choose” which sin is acceptable and which one is not. Sin is sin. There isn’t one sin that is more acceptable than another. All sin is the wage of death; not just a couple that separate us from God. I agree with Mark, it’s wrong to pull out two facets of the church’s doctrine to make a point. We need to stand up and recognize all sin for what it is.

    • Patricia says:

      I once had a Pastor give us a great Ministry on depravity and the fact that we better be able to humble ourselves and stand at the foot of the cross.

      God feels that all sin is the same. And God says Judge not lest yee be judged, because we all fall short to the glory of God.

      He, The Pastor, used the example of a famous painting in a Church. A painter took a prostitute and asked her to pose so he could paint her as a model. He took all the lines out of her face that showed the years of a hard life she was having. When he showed it to a man that was an art collector before he was finished it. The man said, “Oh you painted a picture of the Madonna.” So he painted a babe in her arms and it now hangs in a Church. Our job, he said, was to look for the Madonna in all the people that we meet. Because when we stand at the foot of the cross we will all be equal in our sin. If we are not able to stand by the prostitute where will we be in the coming our Lord?

      Talking about it together and finding the best way to love one another but dispise the sin is the greatest gift we can give our fellow Christians to teach us all how to get along in our crazy mixed up world and remain faithful.

    • cubbycab says:

      Hello. I read your comment here and I must say, I find your honesty and humility refreshing. :D Just as I was starting to get scornful at the willful ignorance that these “Christians” choose for themselves, I felt encouraged by your understanding of the acceptance of the the GIFT of Jesus. Thank you. :)

      If we must act in specific “moral” actions in order to be saved and considered a “Christian”, then we are basically saying Christ died for nothing and salvation for ALL is a lie. The only sin that will not be forgiven is the blasphamy of the Holy Spirit. Be careful you silly Christians, choosing ignorance and willful hate and judging SEEMS to be the “right thing” now, but really, how do you think Judgement Day will go for you? How will you answer the Lord when He asks you what your fruits were? Will it be love and humility, with your life full of moments in which you told people of the FREE GIFT of Salvation we have been given? Or are you a stumbling block, keeping people miserable (and yourself) and acting as though YOU know the mind of God. Thats just shocking. :O Pray for yourself. It works.

  20. victoria says:

    Pastor Mark:Thank you for your insight!From the parental perspective,you are right.
    I should have been watching more closely.
    I do not let him go to the bathroom with anyone!
    He told me the girl pulled him into the bathroom-she’s 12-a lot stronger,and he told
    me right away!

    That being said,

    Paul Stanely,
    Thank you for your biblical insight,I will use this to explain to my kids in the future when it comes up.

    Finally,
    James Slyk,
    File sexual harassment charges against this man who is so openly humiliating you at work!!!What are you waiting for?
    Give him a chance and tell him that what he is doing is wrong,AND illegal.Tell him you need him to stop or you will have to ask for help for him to stop.A gentle reminder that you are not interested,will ease the blow.
    Cover your back first-report it to your boss and they should handle it.You don’t want your co-worker turning the tables and blaming you!

    Well this has been a crappy month for my family-last night we lost our family dog.
    He got hit by a car passing our house(hit and run)and had his back leg broken in half-he had to be put down.He was a nine month old puppy named snoopy.We all stayed home today from school and work and have cried a lot.
    Please pray for Snoopy as his companionship and loyalty meant so much to me and my children
    Thank you, God Bless.

    • Patricia says:

      Victoria. I am so sorry to hear about your puppy. That is a huge blow to you and your family, I am sure. I know how we felt as children when our dog got hit on the highway when we were children.

      You are in my prayers.

  21. Betty says:

    Victoria
    What ever it is, that gives you such a hard time or “crappy month” as you call it, do not give up, Jesus still Loves you very much and cares for you, He is bigger and stonger, then our biggest mountain [problem]and HE PROMISED He will help us and like it says in, 1Peter 5:7 casting all your care upon Him[Jesus], for He[Jesus] cares for you[Victoria] and Psalm 91:15 [Victoria]He shall call upon Me[Jesus], and I[Jesus] will answer [Victoria]him;I[Jesus] will be with [Victoria]him in trouble;I[Jesus] will deliver [Victoria]him and honer [Victoria] him.NKJV

  22. Evelyn Bennett says:

    As we each grow deeper in our faith with God wisdom will be given as to how to handle those who have not given their heart to Christ. Remember this, Christians do fall in sin on a day to day basis. If we are able to focus on our own behavior and repent for the sins we committed, then we will be given insight on how to overcome our constant need to judge those who are struggling.

    The world has definitely corrupt mankind. Temptation can be overcome.

  23. Evelyn Bennett says:

    I tried reading all the comments posted to give me a better eyeview as to how each one of us copes with the unknown and obscene issues we are bombarded with on a day to day basis.

    Each one us became unhappy only when someone happened to make a comment in passing how different we are. Have we ever used the word unique to help comfort those who are discouraged about body image?

    God’s intention was to make each one of us unique. Can you imagine the millions of clones he could have created?

  24. Sally says:

    Thw whole point of this Transgender Bill C-389 was that our government wants to “legislate transgender rights”. Our government wants us to believe that this is normal when we know the Word of God says “He made them female and male”.
    Yes it is sad when a person has an identity crisis which by the way is a lie of the enemy and a deceiving spirit; but it is another story when the government wants to legislate rights to these people thereby legitimizing their plight even more.
    We,the church, have the answer for them…salvation,healing and deliverance through Jesus Christ. Legalizing this gender confusion only continues to keep these individuals trapped inside this facade.

  25. Victoria says:

    Thank you for your prayers.
    I won’t give up!
    I have to move in June now,and I am praying that I can find the right place for my children,so they don’t have to change schools.
    Wow…when it rains it pours.
    I thank God for finding church of the rock online and putting me in touch with some really awesome spiritual people!
    Thank you for your thoughts and prayers,I have been told before,
    “When one door closes,another opens.”
    I know it will be better soon.
    I have faith.
    Talk with you all next topic.
    Ryan Seaquest….OUT!
    lol

  26. Steve says:

    I believe we the church like it says in the Bible need to love each other. I think the reason all of this evil stuff can posper so much is because let’s face it, we don’t love each other enough.
    The Bible says the way we treat the least of our brothers is how we treat Christ Himself. If we ignore the least of our brothers, guess what? We ignore Christ. I think alot of these transgender people are people who have been treated unfairly by the world, so they turn into what they feel accepted as.
    I remember when I first became a Christian, I asked for prayer from a Pastor. I had some anger issues. The pastor then started to speak in a loud voice for all to hear,”Lord take these murderous thoughts from his head!”
    He had no idea what was going on in my head but he thought he did. He left me with no help and less trust in pastors.
    All of this sin out there is pretty bad, but we as the church have a duty to treat people with love, just as much as we have a duty to hate sin.
    And sorry to hear about your dog Victoria. I love my dog too.

  27. Anon says:

    Good blog again Pastor Mark! I didn’t have the time to read every comment, but some really good stuff on there. I hope to add one thing. One verse that’s been huge in helping me get free of my own sexual sin was this one and I think it’s necessary for anyone wanting to get out of a gay lifestyle:

    Titus 2:11-14
    For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.(NIV)

    It’s his grace that teaches us to say “no” but for grace to be understood, we need to be aware of how much our sin actually cost.

    I had one person confide in me at meeting at COTR that they were gay, and it was intensely hard for them to even be in a church building. The person had immense fear, and I was honored that they actually felt that I was a safe person to confide in. They asked me what it would mean to be part of this church, and with mercy and understanding I did explain that Christ would want them to deal with their sexuality the way that I was dealing with mine. They actually already knew that, and didn’t actually seem much bothered by it, but they wondered if our church was a safe place them to grow into leaving the gay lifestyle. I had to be honest and say that most of it would be, but not all of it. This person was really interested in Jesus, and had grown up with some churching; they genuinely liked what we taught in our group that night, but yet never came back. I’ve been praying for them. If think fear of judgement, and fear of the work involved for them might be what has kept them from returning.

    I just said this all to share some of my experience with the issue, and hopefully help us get this right, this standing up for truth with humble hearts that truly love and truly recognize their own bankruptcy.

    We need to pray for ourselves that we have the right heart, that we don’t veer off the path either to the right or the left.

    God Bless!

  28. Jim says:

    It is very bad indeed when perversions such as sodomy and transgender activity is not only accepted as the norm but actually legislated by our so called “democratic” governments”. This is totally unacceptable, on the decency/human level, as well as of course on the spiritual level..Add this to abortion on demand, using our tax dollars to fund them..and well we are in deep trouble..I wonder when our Creator God, will say enough is enough and end it all? Many Christians are very critical of the Muslim faith, but they do not allow this perversion in their countries, nor alcohol, nor tobacco etc..so what religion is setting the better example here? Sadly it is not Christianity..time we started getting involved through prayer, and yes even some activism to stop the madness..but then again our Christian churches’ hands are tied because of their partaking of tax exemptions from the government, so they are effectively muzzled under threat of losing this exemption..so they are basically controlled by the government. Time to throw off the yoke of this oppression, and be able to speak out!

  29. Mary says:

    Matthew 19:12
    For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

    I don’t begin to understand all the why’s on this earth and the Lord does tell us their will be things we won’t understand . I do think though it is so important that we dive into God’s word and pray for understanding and not just listen to the opinions of others. . I respect all you said Mark and I know that you addressed more than one sin in your blog. I however feel that some Pastor’s have no problem with hitting homosexuality/ transgender head on, but a a sin is a sin. We are called to love all sinners and we are all sinners saved by grace and still sin everyday. God looks at the hidden sin of the heart also . I just pray when one stands and speaks about these issues addressed that they first look into their own heart and see what is in their. The plank I guess you can say. Anyone who stands on on pulpit and puts down and slanders one of god’s children to me does not value human beings. Maybe in all of us there is a deep secret prejudice hidden within.

    I nearly lost a love one over reasoning things out. God will always bring about good in very situation., He does meet us in our circumstances. I am not saying I agree with it, but their is alot of things in the church today I don’t agree with.

    Unconditional love is the anchor every gay child needs for the stormy journey.

    Proverbs 20:24..The Lord will decide what a person will do , no one else understands what his life is all about.

  30. James Slyk says:

    My co-worker has been acting up with his homosexual antics towards me, this time during a company luncheon where he kept going on and on about us moving in together and living in a “bachelor rapture”. This was said in front of the boss as well and when told afterward about this and the other connotations made towards me his reply was that he says the same things to the office girls as well and they just ignore him. So, as expected, I was shut down. So I now pray earnestly for a better (and preferable better-paying) job someplace else.

    • Sylvie says:

      Hi James,
      I know you posted this a while ago, but i just wanted to share what i was thinking.

      Sexual harassment is not limited to guys harassing girls. it takes many forms, and it should always be taken seriously.

      Biblically, i don’t know where, but when you have an issue with someone, you are supposed to take it up with them first. Then, if they don’t work it out with you, you talk to the next person up, then the next person up.

      You should try talking to the guy. That’s the first thing. If it were a girl flirting with you constantly at work, you should be able to tell her that it is not appropriate and that you don’t appreciate it. Depending on how you talk to her,she would either be embarrassed or angry, or … etc. Then if she weren’t changing her behavior, you can go to your boss. Sexual harassment is a real thing and when you were first hired, they would have talked about it in an orientation in addition to the fact that they would help you do something about it.

      The fact that it isn’t a woman, but a man who is harassing you doesn’t change anything. You don’t appreciate it! although you have talked to him, it sounds like he isn’t taking you seriously. You really have to explain that if it continues, you’ll have to talk to your boss about it.

      It impedes on your ability to work to your full potential, it effects your efficiency and your focus and any joy you are able to have in your work. (your boss will be particularly concerned about those ones) And you do not feel safe or comfortable in your work environment.
      If this man is unable to respect you and listen to you, your work has a responsibility to intervene. It has nothing to do with you being “homophobic”, it’s simply inappropriate in the work place!

      and maybe the ladies that he flirts with don’t appreciate it either.

      God is absolutely listening to your prayers, but don’t just sit there either. Maybe he requires you to be a little more bold so that he can move in your workplace.

      Good luck and God bless!
      Post again and let us know if anything has changed!

      • James Slyk says:

        Let’s see, my boss will OT do anything (no such thing as labour laws in Alberta), and I’m ready to drive this guy through the ground like a tent peg. I REALLY need a new (and better paying) job, or pray that God deals with the situation at work somehow.

  31. charity says:

    im really hoping that the pastor sees this or someone that can help me….. we have a quit a bit of homosexuality transgender people in my community i grew up in..insest..abuse..alot of sexual sin period… anyway I grew up all around this was raised in a christian home but yet was not spared from the abuse :( sadley…my question is about my son..he is two.. when i was preg with him my mom in law went to see a physcic and she said that we were having a girl cause there was a lot of female energy she seen..i don’t go to these people and neither does my husband we don’t beleive in them although i do believe they have power that comes from the devil..anyways at five months preg we found out that our son who we were told was a girl at ultrasound had a condition called gastroscices, where there is a hole in the abdomen and the insides come out of the body and thr baby grows that way..so we were monitered and had a lot of people praying, his delivery and and surgery went well and no complications he is a regular joe boy..(which we also found out at delivery that he was a boy and not a girl) but lately i been really picking up some strange things..he likes to put girls high heals on..goes into my makeup and trys to put it on..he goes into his sisters shoes and trys to wear them aswell.. the other day i found him putting my underwear on????like what is going on i thought than i was quickly reminded of this physcic and what she said..so i guess im just wondering what can i do or how can i pray to break the curse from son..because i do believe that when phycics speak that they speak curses cause nothing good comes from the father of lies….does anyone have anything to say to me or advice for me??

  32. David Allan says:

    I don’t even know where to begin

    For certain traits, there is so much more to genetics and epigenetics than a simple gene. Sexuality and gender identity are one of these. It’s not like eye colour which can be determined by a simple punnett square. It is both a combination of genes as well as epigentics, which is what occurs during pregnancy and thus has nothing to do with the parents genetic makeup. For example, hormones play a HUGE part in who we are inside.

    But the bigger question besides being ‘born gay’, is why does it matter? Gay people are perfectly fine the way they are if you know a few. They cause no harm and pose no threat.

    The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007: “ Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] ” “Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, “The fetal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.”[8

    Hate and bigotry occurs so much more for GLBT today, , than it does for different ethnicities. Don’t try and say that gay people don’t deserve to fight for rights. You also have no evidence in any of your sayings. Complete a degree in psychology and then tell me otherwise.

    What isn’t ‘right’ about it? No one is ever able to provide a sufficient answer on this. The answers from far right wing people are all so diverse and 98 percent of the time proven wrong and then refuted a year later that you don’t know what to think anymore. This is of course WITHOUT using the bible.

    1 in 7 heterosexual couples are unable to procreate, not including seniors. Does that mean their parts don’t work? And with overpopulation this isn’t exactly a bad thing. And if someone wants kids who can’t (gay or straight), there’s surrogacy/ artificial insemination as well as adoption. And sexually, believe me, the parts do fit in a homosexual union, I know from experience . Some straight couples might not fit (the guy might be too big lol), does that mean it’s wrong for them to express their love?

    Lastly, If the Bible is your only argument and are unable to support with other data, then first off, why would God care?

    Secondly, how can you simply isolate single passages in the bible and say that this is the way things are? I could and people certainly have done this to support slavery, among many other ridiculous concepts.

    What about the message of Jesus about love? And don’t say you “love the sinner, hate the sin” because that doesn’t work with us gays, it’s a hypocritical attitude.

    Lastly, does the bible condemn monogamous, mutually loving same sex relationships? I believe it simply condemns promiscuity, which it does the same with heterosexual couples.

    The old testament certainly condems homosexuality. But Jesus overturned this. It also condemns eating shellfish.

    No where in the new testament are mutually loving homosexual relationships condemned. Romans 1 is what is almost always referred to. But of course these sorts of relationships were bad, the men did terrible things to each other, as mentioned.. This is certainly not the case with loving, gay couples. Yes you can use the bible to condemn promiscuity, but it’s certainly unclear on monogamous loving relationships and whether gender matters in them or not.

    Humans are diverse in our gender and sexuality. Let’s just face it. The bible was also during a different time so we must look at it in it’s historic context. For example, while I believe the bible promotes slavey you might say “it was a different time”. Well, in regards to the romans and the way men treated each other, my God, it was a different time as well.

    Your source, NARTH, is also a terrible one. For starters, one of their main guys, George Reckers, was found with a male prostitute. They have NO credibility. You will be unable to find any credible sources condemning gay people. And Spitzer went back on that saying. He said it was only certain people who could change, referring to bisexuals. You have no idea about the thousands of suicides due to organizations such as NARTH’s failed attempts. Look at any important association, such as the APA and WHO and tell me how you can possibility support what you’ve said. Any credible organization would support what I have said. It’s a little extreme for you to compare us LGBT folks to illegal activity, that is clearly harmful.

    Peace

    • Tim says:

      “The old testament certainly condems homosexuality. But Jesus overturned this. It also condemns eating shellfish. No where in the new testament are mutually loving homosexual relationships condemned.”

      1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New Testament): Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

      It does mention homosexuality in the NT, but also a lot of other stuff we can be guilty of as well.

      • cubbycab says:

        OK> So if you hate on Gays, people with “Diffrent” bodies ( I am a nurse and so far I have never sen any value in judging a patients “Life style” or genitalia condition lol. Instead, effective care is recognizing and valuing the person WHO IS.) If one were to say “Jesus hates that, and You too if ya don’t change”, wouldnt that person be guilty of being a thief? Thieving the promise Jesus made that all are equal in Christ, and that the Gift of Salvation cannot be earned. ‘Thieving salvation from SOME individuals. I hope not, because, I’m quite sure it also written that those who condemn, and then commit sin (all sin being equally sin)THEY will be judged by the exact same standard they apply to others here. And if SOME are unworthy of salvation, then They too will be unworthy of salvation, and that day, let me tell you, will be a day of tremendous weeping and gnashing of teeth, as some “Christians” will become unrecognizable to Christ on Judgement Day. And that, well that would be a real shame. Why did their Church not build up thier Faith? How do these people so easily fall to condemnation by exoressing human judgement in the name of God? Presuming to know God. It is only by Jesus we havae access to God, my friends. Humilty is a very useful trait to cultivate in yourself. I think they have forgotten that they are saved. 2nd Peter 1:5-11. Change now, before its too late.

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