GOING UP?

Every once and a while I preach a message that knocks a whole lot of noses out of joint.  To be honest, I never really know which ones they will be until the emails start coming in Sunday afternoon.  I must confess, I do rather enjoy rattling people’s cages more than I should.  This week I am in Ottawa speaking at the Billy Graham School of Evangelism so I don’t have much time to write.  So instead I am going to leave with you this 9 minute video segment on the rapture, which got more mail than any sermon yet.  Both for and against.  Enjoy!

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24 Responses to GOING UP?

  1. Brent C says:

    Pastor Mark – I also was raised on the Pre-Trib perspective….however, while attending Bible school…they did touch on the mid and Post trib viewpoint. With over twenty years past since that time…..and the hills and valleys of life along the way, I wasn’t so ”shocked” by your sermon….rather, I gained an undertanding of the “Big Picture” — that “all might be saved” — God’s hearts desire and purpose is to reach the lost…and, He intends to use his church to spread the “good news” of the gospel. As you preached this sermon, I realized that the soul of man is much more open to God when he is in need ….and, when tribulation times hit in the end days, it will be the church that will be able to offer “hope in God” to those who have been living apart from Him. I know God’s faithfulness on a personal level instead of theological…and am confident His church will shine in the last days for His Glory. Thanks for taking the time to blog….and I pray your week teaching is anointed and brings much fruit to God’s glory…God bless.

  2. Dale P says:

    Great video Mark! I am a new Christian who has been somewhat confused by the wide acceptance of the pre-trib belief. I have never felt comfortable with it as I have yet to find anywhere in the Bible that makes that situation clear. Thank you for giving me a scripture that speaks plainly.

  3. Isaac says:

    Yeah, I’ve never studied the bible except for in church and on my own, so by reading the bible and asking for the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, it just seems obvious that we’re going through the tribulation. Good sermon again.

  4. Mathew Povey says:

    We have many pre-trib believers in our church, and when pastor Mark preached this they were not exactly happy about it. Granted, if you get on the Left Behind Series you are more inclined to believe in their time plot. They have a great way of putting a story and time line of the last days using scripture. However, if you read this and you are a believer in the pre-millennial dispensation there is a great book that will liberate you from the fabricated story of Tim LaHaye. It is called “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation” by Barbara R Rossing. You do not even need to purchase this book to get the information you need. In the epilogue it goes through scripture by scripture of what verses are used to support the pre-trib notion and shows that they are out of context (while providing their true context).
    This may seem like a ‘moo’ issue for some, but here is some food for thought;
    Israel became a state in 1948 because of believers in pre-trib had a vote to decide whether Israel should be located in the holy land, or somewhere in South Africa. Since, the pre-trib believers wanted to speed up the return of Jesus, they voted for Israel to be in the holy land so that the prophecies may be fulfilled. And I hope you are aware of the Israeli and Palestinian conflict that has been happening since that day. Once again, those who did not understand their bible have pushed the first domino in hundreds of people being killed.
    Bottom line; WE NEED TO TAKE OUR BIBLE SERIOUSLY AND STUDY IT WELL!

  5. Susan Levy says:

    Israel was made a Jewish state in1948 because it had been the Jews’ homeland for a few thousand years, and because of the concerted efforts of people like Golda Meir and David Ben Gurion, to convince the British and the United Nations to create that state. South Africa was not even on the radar screen. And none of this has anything to do with anything so absurd as “the rapture.”

  6. Maya Y says:

    Dear Pastor Mark, Since I first watched your sermon “The Super Hero” I see yours sermons every week. I’m brazilian, so my English is not so good, I live in Curitiba city. I’ve been praying for you and your family. I totally agree with you about pre-trib, my church has the same way of thinking. I wish some day I will be able to go to Winnipeg to see your sermon in person. Never mind if some one is been shocked about what you say, but pay attention of what the Holy Spirit tells you.

  7. Mathew Povey says:

    Susan,
    You are right, Israel was there homeland for many years, however, the Jewish race has been in diaspora for that long as well. The Palestinians where living there for hundreds of years, and most of them got kicked to the Gaza strip (after Israel became a state). And many of those who convinced the United Nations to create the state after the sympathy for them after WWII and voted for the state to be in Jerusalem were pre-millennial dispensationalists (pre-trib believers). Perhaps not South Africa, but I know that they were looking for an alternative place for the state in Africa somewhere.

  8. Ryan says:

    Ryan

    Well, about the rapture, it took place in the old testament.( If you know a little about your bible, why would jesus tell us to be on guard for he will come as a thief. And if the rapture is not true, then somebody tell me what does the parable about the 10 virgins mean.

    Even billy graham believes in the rapture. Ask him why!

  9. ryan says:

    “‘Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.’”

    “I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. Worship God!… Then he told me, ‘Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book because the time is near. ‘Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.’… The Spirit and the bride say ‘Come!’ and let him who hears say ‘Come!’… He who testifies these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming soon.’ Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.” Revelation 22:7-20

    Yes, it’s true! Jesus is coming back! Someday when we least expect it, he will come back and take all the Christians to heaven. That is what most of us called a “rapture”. No one knows when it will happen; not even Jesus or the angels know (Matthew 24:36). But God does and it will happen. So there is no reason for date setting, because God will do it when he pleases.

    Here’s the scripture for proof of the Rapture:
    Mark 13:32-33
    Luke 12:35-40
    John 14:1-3
    1 Corinthians 15:51-53; 1:7-8
    1 Thessalonians 1:10; 3:13; 5:23; 2:19; 4:13-18; 5:9
    Titus 2:11-14
    Hebrews 9:24-28
    1 Peter 1:3-5; 1:13; 5:4
    2 Peter 3
    Romans 8:19
    Philippians 3:20-21; 4:5
    Colossians 3:4
    2 Timothy 4:1, 8
    James 5:7-9
    1 John 2:28-3:2
    Revelation 2:25; 3:10

    Even though we don’t know what time the Rapture will occur, we can be prepared. And God left us a lot of hints in the Bible so that we can be ready. Many people doubt that there will even be a Rapture. Some believe the Rapture will occur in the middle of the Tribulation or at the very end. But that does not make sense; why would God allow the Christians to be put through that? He wouldn’t.

    Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    A Pre-Tribulation Rapture is where the Rapture occurs before the 7-year Tribulation, and even before a peace treaty. It makes perfect sense that there will be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. First off, that’s what everyone has believed for years. Here’s a few verses below that proves there will be a Rapture (I also listed them above, but I’d thought I’d just list ‘em here anyway.)

    “Be on guard! Be alert! You don’t know when that time will come.” Mark 13:32-33.

    See that’s the difference between a Pre-Tribulation Rapture and the Second Coming. People will know when Jesus’ Second Coming is. It has it right in Revelation and since Revelation goes chronologically, we know that right after the marriage supper of the lamb (Revelation 19:7-10) that Jesus will be back then. As for the Rapture, we’ll never know. Proof of that, look at the verse above.

    “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not sleep, but we will be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. ”
    1 Corinthians 15:51-52.

    It’s interesting to note that Christ’s coming is referred to as a trumpet. Look at Revelation 4:1. It speaks about a voice sounding like a trumpet. Throughout the Bible the Rapture is referred as the trumpet. It is possible, that when John mentioned the trumpet in Revelation 4:1, that he was speaking about the Rapture.

    “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also maybe where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”John 14:1-4

    This is another proof of a Rapture. See there’s a big difference between a Rapture and a Second Coming. A Second Coming is where he comes and sets his kingdom on the earth (Revelation 19-20:6). In the Second Coming, Jesus won’t be taking anyone anywhere when he does that. But John 14:1-4 clearly states that he is coming back for us and will take us to the place he is preparing for us.

    So be ready; the Rapture could come any moment! If you are unsaved and think you have all the time in the world, you don’t. Jesus will come back when we least expect Him. So be ready!

  10. Susan Levy says:

    If you’re silly enough to believe the Bible is literal, then I guess you’ll believe in the rapture. The Bible was written over the period of a couple centuries by men, by fallible human beings like you and me. There are several different versions known of the story of Adam and Eve, for example. They were all concocted by men. The Bible is a collection of myths that are designed to tell us how we should live. It should be taken metaphorically, not literally.
    And Africa was never, ever considered as a possiblehomeland for the Jewish people.

  11. Ryan says:

    Susan, I believe in the rapture, i believe that when Jesus said “”I am the way, truth and the life, no man goes to the father but by me.”
    I take that literal.
    Susan, I guess you don’t believe in The bible.
    Do you believe in God?
    study bible prophecy, and you will learn whats literal.

  12. Tamara says:

    The word ‘concocted’ is a little strong. It implies some kind of intentional deceit, or ‘made-up-ness’. Sure, there are other texts from the ancient Near East that tell creation stories, flood stories, god stories. Stories are extremely powerful ways that we have always communicated things to one another that are spiritual, mysterious or profound. The point of the Adam and Eve story is really not that we know that there was an Adam and an Eve. The point is that we understand the great truth of our existence: that we are created in God’s image, that we are cared for, that we have a purpose and a plan for our lives, that the Divine is intimately interested in relationship with us. From this text we understand other truths, like the fact that there is real evil at work in our world, that we are easily deceived, that we are self-preserving. This is not common to the other ancient texts… this is completely unique to the Biblical story. The Hebrew is rich with imagery, poetry, plays on words… it tells in a painfully beautiful way the story of how it is that we are out of relationship with God and one another, the truth about why the world is the way it is… and it gives the forshadowing of what God intends to do about it through Jesus. There’s ALOT of truth in those first few chapters of Genesis… most of which we entirely miss because we just don’t get it.

    Jesus told stories all the time. I realize this is a hot-button topic, but I would like to say that you can absolutely have a profound belief in the infallibility of the Biblical text without needing to regard every word as literal. Our way of recording history is very new, and it is wrong to impose our modern sensibilities upon generations thousands of years ago simply because that’s how we do it now. The Bible is revelation, not a text book, and certainly not divine that we should worship it. It is God’s revelation. It is for us to comprehend it, not for God to align it with our way of thinking about things.

    What’s so BAD about ‘story’, anyway? Since when does a story have to be literal to be true? That’s not Biblical… Jesus told stories, and they were true, and they were not literal. I tell my children stories… parables, fables, cautionary tales, stories of hope, conquest, adventure… because the truth that they are understanding from the stories is important. Jesus used metaphors all the time. ‘Knock and door will be opened’… was he simply explaining to us the cause and effect of how the whole knock/door thing works? Were doors just invented, that nobody knew what to do to get one to open from the other side? Jesus was speaking a deeper, greater spiritual truth to us through a metaphor. God understands metaphor, you know? He created it. He understands metaphor, poetry, irony, foreshadowing… He’s the Author.

    How this relates to the rapture, or ‘The Trib’… well, who knows. I don’t spend alot of time wondering about that stuff. I’m ready when He is, you know? I prefer to think that God would leave us here during a Tribulation… because really, isn’t the heart of God to save the lost? Shouldn’t that be our heart? Why would we want to run when things get tough? Isn’t God BIG enough to see us through? What is the light for, if not to shine in the darkness?

  13. Ryan says:

    Tamara
    Tamara, Wow, thank you

  14. Steve says:

    Pastor Mark,
    I also believe that we will be taken after the tribulation. Like you said, so many people have already suffered so much for the sake of the cross. I know that God will be with us stronger than ever when we are in the worst circumstances. Although it does say to pray always that God will spare you from the testing that will come upon the whole earth. That probably means that God will give us the strength to resist the time of testing I’m thinking.
    I know you said in one of these sermons that you believe in the thousand year reign here on earth after the rapture. This whole concept never really made any sense to me. Expecially the part about the Devil being let loose again in the end. There is a scripture(I can’t remember where exactly) that says we will be changed in an instant from mortal to imortal when Jesus comes. This sounds to me like when Jesus comes, that’s it, it’s final. In revelation 20 it says,”I saw thrones of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)
    Notice that it says they never recieved the mark( those who were beheaded). But Christians have been around since Jesus and there’s never been a mark forced on anyone that has been slaughtered for His sake. God calls things that aren’t as though they were, right? So I’m thinking that those beheaded and coming to life are us who accept Jesus. Our old nature has been beheaded and we are now reigning with Christ against the powers of darkness. We have His authority against the devil. And the rest of the dead are guys like Moses, David all the great men of the old testament. When Jesus died on the cross, He destroyed the power of the enemy. And now we are reigning with Him in this same victory. I believe we are in the thousand year reign and the Holy Spirit has kept the devil from totally getting his way. In the end he will be set loose to do completely as he wishes which will be the great tribulation.
    I was just wondering what you thought about my whole theory. I’m not trying to knock what you said, it just never sat right with me that after all the tribulation and everything the devil will be set loose once again just when we thought it was all over.

  15. Ryan says:

    The First Resurrection

    I’ve heard some folks say, “There cannot be a pre-trib rapture because to have one would require a second resurrection at Christ’s return to earth.” This conclusion is drawn from Revelation 20:

    “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years” (Rev 20:5-6).

    One pre-trib writer, explaining this passage, said, “The first did not mean first in time, but rather first in kind.” The first resurrection was for God’s people the second will be for the unsaved.

    A quick way to shoot down the notion that the first resurrection is tied to a specific date, as opposed to a more general time frame, is to take note of the tribulation rapture of the two witnesses and the 144,000 Jewish evangelists. At the mid-point of the tribulation, the two witnesses are killed by the Antichrist, resurrected by God, and then caught up into heaven (Rev 11:3-12).

    Revelation chapter 7 describes the sealing of the 144,000 Jewish evangelists just before the Beast issues his mark. Sometime during the latter half of the tribulation, Revelation chapter 14 indicates they will be “redeemed from the earth,” standing before the throne of God.

    Confusion over Confusion: 2 Thes 2:1-6

    Because Paul, in 2 Thessalonians, said the Antichrist would be revealed before the Day of the Christ, post and pre-wrath adherents frequently try to cite this passage as one that refutes the pre-trib rapture.

    To quell the Thessalonian’s misunderstanding that they had somehow entered the tribulation, Paul told them the Antichrist must first be revealed. By telling them they had no reason to panic, Paul is clearly disputing the idea that the Thessalonians could someday find themselves facing the tribulation hour.

    I’m constantly being irked by Post-trib and pre-wrath folks’ consistent, or better yet deliberate, failure to accept the simple fact that the pre-trib doctrine calls for a rapture and a second coming. Because they only glean the prophetic word for one event–the second coming–they’re unable to recognize pre-trib rapture passages.

    Of course, when you fuse the two advents together, you end up with verses that appear to contradict each other: 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” and Revelation 13:7, “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

    Reverse Logic Stuck In Reverse

    Many people are against the pre-trib rapture simply because they see it as being the dominant view on the timing of Christ’s return for the Church. The anti-pretribulationists often think they are the last remaining true believers. I’m simply dumbfounded over why some people choose rebellion against the majority view as their guide for finding truth.

    The measurement of popularity alone is a terrible way to determine something’s validity. It is particularly strange when people solely rely on the contrarian view to judge truth from fiction. I utilize contrarian views all the time to help determine what is truthful; however, it would be a terrible mistake on my part if I made Contrarianism the core foundation of any of my beliefs.

    If you’re using reverse logic, you need to support your conclusions. The vast majority of the population would agree that apples grow on apple trees and cherries grow on cheery trees. The pure novelty of the opposite being true does not in any way help make it so. Unless you see farmers gluing apples onto cherry trees or picking cherries from apple trees, you have no basis to think that these two fruits do not grow on anything but the trees that share the same name.

    Some people are clearly more in love with the idea of a conspiracy than they are the truth. Every time an airplane crashes to the earth there’s someone who will proclaim it was caused by anything from an act of terrorism to a bizarre government plot. It’s just not exciting enough to say it was a mechanical problem that led to the crash.

    The idea that the pre-trib rapture is the dominant view is not correct in the first place. Most evangelicals would say they look for a pre-trib rapture, but if you include all Christians, pretribulationists would rank third behind post-trib and preterist adherents.

    Persecute Me Please

    You would think the desire to go through the tribulation would be as popular as the desire to jump into a pit filled with vipers and broken glass. As illogical as it may seem, there appears to be a large number of Christians that fully expect to get roughed up before Christ returns.

    Many Christians argue strongly for the right to suffer persecution at the hands of the Antichrist and the one world government. These tribulation saint wannabees constantly harp, “Because Jesus and His disciples suffered persecution, we should expect no better.” It’s been my experience that people with the weakest faith are generally the ones that talk the boldest. When the slightest difficulty comes their way, they cry to high heaven.

    I hate to be the bearer of good news, but the word of God clearly states that believers will escape the tribulation bloodbath. “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thes 5:9). “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev 3:10).

    In one regard, people who think the Church will go through the tribulation are somewhat correct. I believe there will be a huge number of “carnal Christians” that will find themselves left behind. By having the rapture before the tribulation, all those who find themselves facing the wrath of God will be without an excuse.

    Replacementism

    Because Revelation places a strong emphasis on Israel during the tribulation, and not on the church, most post-tribulationists have adopted a replacement theology view in order to maintain the focus on them.

    Replacementism is the view that Israel, having failed God, has been replaced by the Church. The Church is now seen as spiritual Israel and spiritual Jerusalem. This teaching claims that all the promises and blessings, in fact Israel’s entire inheritance, now belongs to the Church. However, all is not lost for Israel; it gets to keep all the curses.

    Dispensational theology, taught by nearly all pre-tribulationists, teaches that God has separate strategies for dealing with the Church and the Jews. When you consider the change in focus, during the tribulation, from the Church to Israel, the pre-trib rapture provides a good explanation for this transfer of attention.

    To say that Israel is no longer God’s chosen people is really playing with fire because the Antichrist will likely be saying the same thing when he tries to destroy the Jews during the tribulation. I look for people that hold to replacementism to be in the cheering section when the Beast goes on his Jew-killing campaign. “The Lord will not reject his people; he will never forsake his inheritance” (Psalm 94:14).

    “This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar – the Lord Almighty is his name: ‘Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,’ declares the Lord, ‘will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me’” (Jeremiah 31:35-36).

  16. Mark Hughes says:

    STEVE
    The wishful thinking pre-tribbers love to quote Rev. 3:10 as proof positive that the church is leaving planet earth before the Tribulation. Never mind that it says the exact opposite! “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will KEEP thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” The word KEEP is the same word Jesus uses in John 17:15 “I pray NOT that You should take them out of the world, but that You should KEEP them from the evil.” So KEEP means that He will protect us in times of trouble, NOT that He will take us out of the world.
    The time line of the book of Revelation is a bit complicated. I go through it in the series The End of The Age. It is available on our website and the CD version is more complet as the DVD is the editted for TV version and is missing about 1/3 of the material.
    Briefly, all new testament and old testament saints are raised at the Rapture which takes place at the Second Coming, also called the First Resurrection. They will receive glorified bodies and reign with Christ 1000 years. The “rest of the dead” of Rev. 20:5 are the unrighteous dead that spend that 1000 years in Hades. They are raised at the end of the 1000 years for the Great White Throne judgement, also called the Second death. They are then thrown into the Lake of Fire (a fate you should not wish on your worst enemies).
    Releasing Satan for yet one more go at humanity, as bizarre as that seems, is necessary to give all those born during the 1000 years a clear choice between good and evil. A choice they will not have during Christ’s rule. God created us with a free will and will always let us choose our own path…and sadly, many will choose the wrong one.

  17. Steve says:

    Hey Ryan,
    I don’t know why you’re so bent out of shape about believing in post tribulation. If you are right then yippeeciiiyaaaee, we all go to heaven without being persecuted. If you are wrong then us post tribulation people will have been prepared for that moment the whole time and you will be utterly devastated to learn that what you wanted to escape is right in front of you staring you in the face. I’m sure that God would soon help you to face this fear but the initial shock would probably throw you for a loop. Why would you not want to be prepared is what I would like to know?
    Another thing, the tribulation scares the tar out of everyone. Nobody thrives on this as some lovely idea from heaven. It’s like 2 people having to go to war. One person sees the trouble ahead, acknowledges it and moves forward. The other ignores the trouble, pretending it doesn’t exist and continues to live in lala land. Who will be better off in the end?

  18. Steve says:

    Pastor Mark,
    One thing I don’t understand is if we recieve glorified bodies at Christ’s return then wouldn’t our children also have glorified bodies? Does it say that we will be producing children during this time? Sorry to be asking all these questions but it seems to be what I do best. One other reason I came up with my theory is that it says all those who were beheaded. Does that mean only Christians who died by being decapitated will reign with Christ for a thousand years. Or could it be refering to something else? It seems odd to me that God would keep others from sharing in the thousand year reign just because they were killed the wrong way. Anyways I like to disect things and maybe a little too much. This whole subject always gets me pondering what it all exactly means. I feel like Indiana Jones.
    Sorry this is not really what your topic is about.

  19. Ryan says:

    Well steve,

    I am not Wishful thinking.
    Let me ask you a question Steve, are Christians being persecuted today?
    Well I Will answer that for you, “Yes”.
    Thats the problem with North American so called Christians, you think because you can step out of your door in freedom, thats how the rest of the world is.
    Christian are being killed by numbers in Africa, Asia, and the middle and the east. check out http://www.christianpersecution.info.

    Persecute Me Please

    You would think the desire to go through the tribulation would be as popular as the desire to jump into a pit filled with vipers and broken glass. As illogical as it may seem, there appears to be a large number of Christians that fully expect to get roughed up before Christ returns.

    Many Christians argue strongly for the right to suffer persecution at the hands of the Antichrist and the one world government. These tribulation saint wannabees constantly harp, “Because Jesus and His disciples suffered persecution, we should expect no better.” It’s been my experience that people with the weakest faith are generally the ones that talk the boldest. When the slightest difficulty comes their way, they cry to high heaven.

    I hate to be the bearer of good news, but the word of God clearly states that believers will escape the tribulation bloodbath. “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thes 5:9). “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev 3:10).

    In one regard, people who think the Church will go through the tribulation are somewhat correct. I believe there will be a huge number of “carnal Christians” that will find themselves left behind. By having the rapture before the tribulation, all those who find themselves facing the wrath of God will be without an excuse.

  20. Ryan says:

    Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say that the Church will be raptured before the tribulation.

    Pre-trib opponents should have thought this one through because any pre-tribulationist has the same right to say, “Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say the Church will go through the tribulation.”

    Jesus did say, “Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh” (Matthew 24:44). The only time frame I can think of when we believers would not be expecting Jesus to return would have to be before the tribulation.

  21. Steve says:

    Ryan my disagreeing brother,
    I must admit that your last comment did make some sense. It does seem likely that the tribulation would be the time when most believers would expect Jesus to come soon. I’ve been looking a bit through scripture and you know what? It doesn’t say when Jesus is coming. It just says that He will. So I guess we can both just shut up then.
    Although I would like to say that Jesus spoke boldly, Paul spoke boldly, every godly man I can think of spoke boldly. Not to mention the Bible tells us to be bold. So to say that someone who has weak faith speaks the boldest doesn’t make much sense.
    I have been to India as well in case you were wondering. We had to pick up some Christans who were fleeing because their church was going to be burned by the muslims. I saw a man that was mute speak and a woman’s fever leave her instantly through prayer as well, not to mention little children in a small village bowing before the magesty of God because of the miracles. So I know a little bit about what’s outside North America. But you are right that Christianity in North America is pretty pathetic compared to other places in the world. You sound like you’ve travelled the globe risking your life for the gospel the way you’re talking so I won’t harass you too much. God bless.

  22. Ryam says:

    Steve, I know we disagreed on one topic, but the most important is our faith in Jesus. You made excellent points as well.

    Keep well
    God bless

  23. j,hodgkinson says:

    i watch you on sunday at 1o3o am in vancouver bc.i like the way you get your sermon across.i would like to get the book you offer also some dvds of your sermons hope you can help me thankyou jean

  24. Evelyn Bennett says:

    It is amazing of how many different eyeviews there are in the world in general. In all different religious cultures there is one right and one wrong to view what is going to happen in the end of days.

    The answer is obvious, take inventory of your lives and realize that Jesus is the answer – End of story.

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