A MONKEY'S UNCLE

Little Johnny goes into the living room and asks his Dad the question; “Where did we come from?”  His father tells him we evolved from monkeys.  He then heads into the kitchen and asks his mother the same question.  She responds, “We were created in the image of God”.  “But Dad just told me we evolved from monkeys”,  little Johnny contested.  His mother calmly explained, “Hey, he’s telling you about his side of the family, I’m telling you about mine.”

Up until the so-called Scopes Monkey Trial in 1926 it was illegal to teach anything other than creationism in American public schools.  The trial was a watershed moment and today not only is creationism not taught in virtually any public schools but evolution is taught as a fact not as a theory.  I would hardly expect the the public school system to do otherwise.  After all, what do secular educators know about creation?  No, my beef is with the vast number of Christians that have bought into the lie.  Professing to be wise, they became fools,  and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man––and birds and four–footed animals and creeping things.  Rom 1:23-24  The apostle Paul was probably talking about idols but the comparison to evolution works perfectly well. 

Many Christians are in a way embarrassed by creationism.  Having been bombarded by secular thinking for years, the idea of the heavens and the earth being created in six days and man coming from the dust of the ground, seems fairy tale-like to say the least.  It seems to fly in the face of the mountains of scientific evidence that the earth is billions of years old and that the species all seem to have flowed one from another.  The big problem of course is there is nothing objective about today’s science.  All the evidence they collect is now interpreted based on the presupposition that evolution is a fact.  It is actually a belief system; a kind of secular faith that many spend an enormous amount of time and energy trying to defend.  Never mind that after all the years and the millions of dollars spent, they still have never found a single convincing ‘transitional form’ (a sub-species that clearly links one species to another).  If various creatures evolved one into another, then these transitional forms should have been discovered somewhere along the line, but they haven’t been.  The lame explanation is called ‘punctuated evovlution’.  Meaning, that the species didn’t gradually evolve, but jumped from one form to another so quickly that the transitional forms are too few to be found in the fossil record.  Oh please, what do they take us for?  

I’ve always contended that evolutionists have far more faith than creationists.  They need to believe that a lifeless planet floating in the void of nothingness spontaneously exploded into biological life.  Then out of the primordial ooze, driven by upwardly mobile ambition, we just kept on upgrading from one celled, to multi-celled, to aquatic, to land mammal, to primate, to humanoid, to land line, to cell phone, to Blackberry, to Bluetooth…Wow, now that is an extraordinary level of faith.  

Let’s face it, it is a whole lot easier to believe that a supreme God used his supernatural power and created the whole thing. It is not hard to see what many are now calling “intelligent design”.  It is all just too magnificent to be an accident.  We are amazing creatures that can love and care for each other, think abstractly and live in an almost incomprehensible universe that can meet every human physical need we can think of.  If science could ever start to get truly honest, they would begin to see all the signs point to an intelligent creator.  Consider this.  Having mapped the human genome they have discovered that all males’ DNA can be traced back to one man around the time of Noah.  Makes sense, we started over again with Noah.  But… all females’ DNA somehow goes back farther.  Remember, Noah’s son’s three wives were not related to Noah.  The female lineage goes all the way back to Eve.  Anthropolegists are well aware of this oddity but never talk about it because they have no explanation.  We do.  The story of the bible has always been reliable. 

If we are going to start questioning the historical and scientific accuracy of the scripture then what else are we going to choose not to believe.  It’s time for Christians to become aware of this amazing owner’s manual we have called the Bible.  All other textbooks pale in comparison.

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29 Responses to A MONKEY'S UNCLE

  1. Stuart says:

    Right on, Pastor Mark!

    I’d love it if one day you’ll host a game show at COTR modeled after “Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader?” The title would be “Do You Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist?”. The premise of the show is that if you don’t have enough faith to believe in the Theory of Evolution and the random, purposeless, no-God origins of humanity, that’s OK. You probably still have enough faith to be a Christian since the TRUTH of what it means to be human is PLAINLY seen throughout creation and history. (Romans 1:18-31)

    There are literally hundreds of scientists, many of whom are not professing Christians who find Darwin’s Theory of Evolution untenable given that the evidence supports a Theory of Intelligent Design.

    Anyone interested in exploring this should read, “Uncommon Dissent – Intellectuals Who Find Darwinism Unconvincing” edited by William A. Dembski. ISBN: 1-932236-31-7

    An excellent book that exposes that unreasonable foundation of Darwinian Evolution is “Reason in the Balance – The Case Against Naturalism in Science, Law & Education” by Phillip E. Johnson ISBN: 0-83081610-0

  2. Karen says:

    Thanks Pastor Mark!
    I remember when I was in Grade 8, I failed a science test because the teacher asked “how was the solar system created?” I answered: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth!” That was nearly 30 years ago. I am probably repeating your opinion, but as an educational assistant, I see everyday how “science” influences young minds…Maybe my experience 30 years ago is why I don’t worry about how old the earth is or whether or not we came from monkeys!
    I feel sometimes that we as a society have forgotten the Sovereignty of God. As technology becomes more widespread, the less people seem to believe that God is the Alpha and Omega. Sadly, this includes some believers.
    Maybe I’m to simple but I love the fact that I can be in awe of our beautiful Rocky Mountains, sit under millions of stars, watch the Northern Lights dance across the sky, a rose open, a garden grow, listen to a baby cry in church and still give honor and glory to the one that gave all of these wonders to me.

  3. Gord says:

    I’m only the third to comment after 3 days. I think that means many people question the Biblical account of the beginning. For some, Genesis is a less than literal version of the truth. Karen’s experience is common; her reaction probably is not. We were taught Darwin’s theory and for me, it was held out as truth. It was never questioned by my parents. I never heard a challenge from my local church. It was decades before I began to question my beliefs and where they came from.

    Today I got an email regarding a campaign by Christian Americans to reject the new dollar coin. Why? Good reason. The words, “In God We Trust” have been omitted. I appreciate the sentiment, but I wonder what our world would be like if they really meant “In God We Trust”. I only wish we could have those words on our money and live by them.

  4. todd says:

    We fell for Darwin like we almost fell for Al Gore/Global Warming. It’s time to question the motives of our educator’s. It’s a dangerous world out there but finally people are starting to see the light. I believe many of our current “beliefs” will be corrected in the near future, including so-called evolution. Like somebody above alluded to – there’s more evidence to the contrary however most people choose to believe out of lazy ignorance. We’re Evolving alright – to a mass awakening to Creationism. I feel that in my bones.

  5. Evelyn Bennett says:

    You always blow me away. The deep thinking topics are always the best way to go when you want a debate.

    I do believe that many are fooled by creation. You know why.

    the world way of thinking has contaminated God’s creation.

    Keep the faith People

    Evelyn

  6. Steve says:

    I’ve never had a problem believing the Bible’s account of the world’s beginings.It always baffles me how Christians have a hard time with something because the television or schooling tells them a different story.It’s as if people think there is some group of scientists out there that are somehow able to understand life so much more than we.I think the reason for this is people don’t want to think about it.They want someone to tell them things and blindly put their faith in them.A person on their own would probably never think to themselves that killing a child in the womb is AOK.But because these great wise scientists say it’s OK, no problem.A soldier in Hitlers army was quoted saying we are so happy we are free from freedom.In other words they blindly trusted Hitler and because Hitler said it was ok they were able to commit horrible atrocities and leave their consciences behind.If we were to go out and meet these decision makers for the world we’d probably think, these guys don’t look any more wise than I do.Why am I letting them tell me what life is all about.I’ll put my trust in the Bible over some hillbilly in a white suit any day.

  7. Isaac says:

    I became a Christian about 5 years ago, and like most people schooled in Canada, I simply assumed evolution was true, and it never even dawned on me that it was a faith issue. I just thought, well God used evolution to make it all. Then I saw a video, and in one hour I was convinced of a young earth, and that we are all designed. I also understood the necessity of it too. One simple fact that convinced me is that death entered the world with Adam, but evolution requires death after death after death.

    It still is a faith issue and sometimes I think we try to decifer it all too much. I think this goes back to that human pride of thinking we can figure it all out. As if we’re God.

  8. IanS says:

    The only thing about this post that I would say should be said different is the comic at the end. Where it says “God said it, I believe it, that settles it…” It dosen’t matter if we believe it or not. If God said it, it’s true!

    Awsome as always Pastor Mark!

    Keep it up.

  9. Chris says:

    Hey Mark!
    Great post on Creation vs. Evolutionism!!
    Before I began studying the scientific evidence behind an intelligent designer, I avoided questions from people regarding the validity of the bible. I could never really backup my claims that the bible was 100 percent accurate from cover to cover… I just took it by blind (some would call it stubborn, I prefer obedient) faith.
    Now that I’ve researched the subject however, the evidence for a creator is overwhelming… and irrefutable.
    Consequently, my faith has been renewed and I know now with all my heart that the bible is truly the unwavering Word Of God and valid in every way.
    This is important to note because ANY doubt in the validity of the bible can spread like a cancer for all who may come to Christ, and even shake the faith of God’s own.

    Trust is only trust if it’s complete and total.

    Keep up the great work Mark!
    God bless you all.
    Chris, Saskatoon.

    PS For those who haven’t watched Kent Hovind’s scientific arguments for a creator, I recommend him. I can’t stress how important it is for Christians NOT to doubt the accuracy of the bible. After all, Jesus Christ IS the Word of God. And to doubt the bible is to doubt the power of He who died so that you may be free.
    http://www.drdino.com/media-categories.php
    Watch the seminars, I pray that they strengthen your faith as they did mine.

  10. Karen says:

    So…I’m sitting in my science class today, and a student innocently puts up her hand and asks “what is science?” The teacher responded, “the study of all life,” Now I have to admit, I like David Suzuki and Al Gore. I think that they do have something to offer. Do I take what they are saying and treat it as literal truth? NO! That’s what the problem is! We are not telling our kids (or ourselves) to find the right answers. People can teach and promote all they want….our children need to know that it is alright to go and find the answers for themselves and not be judged or ridiculed! Everyday I have to tell students that it’s okay to go and find the right answer for themselves, especially if they (we) are having the smallest inkling that what people are trying to shove down their throats are questionable. DO NOT BECOME LAZY THINKERS! I’m not just talking about science, I am talking about ALL areas of our lives….including spiritual. Satan loves to get a hold of people who are willing to chew up what someone else spits out!
    I know that these comments are a little off the topic of Pastor Mark’s original blog, and I am sorry for that. I sometimes feel that I wouldn’t know where to find information like this to become better informed (educated) myself. BUT….I am going to find out!

  11. ed says:

    either the Bible is literal or it’s not, simple as that

    i always hear believers say that it really doesn’t matter how old the earth is, that it doesn’t matter if the creation account is figurative or literal…ah, yeah it does, and it matters a lot

    if creation is not literal, than what else in the Bible is not literal…and the big question is WHO gets to decide? satan? because that’s who we leave it up to when we start to compromise in this way

    if it’s not literal, then all we are left with is a compromised version of God’s Word that is open for any interpretation…YIKES!

    God watches over His Word and to those who ask, seek, and knock, He will answer, find, and open…if He says six days, what’s the big deal that it was six days? aren’t there enough other juicy Scriptural bits for us to chew on that we can leave the obvious alone?

    my latest question on this topic is this: what’s the problem with it being literal? is there any other problem with that other then that it doesn’t fit with popular opinion? this i have been wondering for the last few days…

  12. Shannon says:

    Mark
    I am confused over your Noah/Eve statement. It’s an interesting theory but wouldn’t Noah still have Adam’s DNA and because of that wouldn’t men still have to be carrying Adam’s DNA today? And I’m pretty sure we carry genes from both our parents! The women don’t just have the DNA from their mothers and the men from their fathers . . . so how could it be possible for just the women to have older genetics? Or am I completely missing the point?

  13. Jordan says:

    Interesting topic Mark… I support everything you’ve mentioned, and am rather glad you pointed out that its merely a theory. However in relation to schools, what validity does the state have in depicting what is taught to children? The role of the state should be to promote constructive decisions, unfortunately it does a poor job at this and quite a good job at promoting deconstructive decisions (casinos, abortion, gay marriage, government bailouts, etc.). I beg the question, what happened? It’s clear that evolution taught in school is just another misstep of the state.

  14. Mark Hughes says:

    Shannon
    It is a bit complicated, but men and women do not have the same DNA structure. Women have a Mitochondrial chromosome and men a Y chromosome. This allows scientists to trace the ancestors of men and women seperately. They actually call the first man “biological Adam” and the first woman “biological Eve” (but do not believe they are the biblical Adam and Eve). As I mentioned they do not know what to do with the fact that the mtDNA is older than the yDNA. That is because as I said, “biological Adam” is actually Noah, whereas “biological Eve” is Eve. Get it?

  15. RJ says:

    Hey you Guys! I don’t know all of you but do know a couple so I will just throw this out. I see many of you try to educate those in the secular/christain world and that is great. I on the other hand we should also teach another form which is also a comand. Be fruitful and multiply-Teach your children so when they grow old they will not stray from it. We did a lot of deprograming after our kids got home from school and as well we actually multiplied as the the Lord advised us to. On the other hand some of us did not!!! Look up the definition of multiplication.(lot of kids to adopt if you find the other to difficult) The Musilims know it and are more obedient than us and according to P Marks own message stating the heritage and beliefs of the general population in a couple of years that wil protray the reward of that command. What is it actually that is hindering christian population growth. Intellegent education? Most definitly. I need it most of all and that can be seen in my spelling. On the other hand does it cost to much to have bigger families and teach them ? You bet it does and I know as we had 6 and had the privilage of parenting 5 kids and none would consider another design from what we taught them. Fact remains you won’t have the dual pensions or bank accounts to rely on to be able to retire when most do. Oh but its so rewarding and I would never go back to reconsider. You don’t have to be that smart but only know the basics to start life if you know what I mean. The rest is a process and the Teacher is faithful.

  16. Riley says:

    I am a visitor here. I disagree with Pastor Mark’s blog post. With respect, I think it displays a lack of scientific literacy. Evolution has been proven in the lab, through DNA evidence, through observation of living species and comparative anatomy and through the fossil record (and yes there are many transitional fossils — all you need to do is do a quick google or Wikipedia search on the subject, or better yet, pick up and actually read a modern biology text.) There’s no evidence for “intelligent design” and plenty of evidence fo un-intelligent design (why do flightless birds have wings? Why do we have an appendix that serves no purpose but to kill you when it bursts? Why do whales have leg bones inside their bodies? Why do snakes have a pelvis? I could go on and on and on)

    Why does everyone here think that if the Bible is not literally true, then all is lost and there’s no hope? Do any of you actually know anything about the history of how the Bible came together? Do you know anything about circular reasoning? (Eg. The Bible is true because … wait for it … the BIBLE says so! Well then I guess the Koran is true, as well … same with the book of Mormon) I am not trying to be a troll here. I am genuinely trying to understand where you’re coming from and it seems folks here are people of good will, so I hope you can help me out.

  17. Pastor Mark says:

    Evolutionists love to insult creationists as being scientifically or historically ignorant if they believe the biblical account of creation. What they don’t know is that the Intelligent Design movement is not being lead by a bunch of bible thumpers but brilliant scientists and academics that have come to question the “circular reasoning” of evolution. Namely, that evolution is true and therefore all new evidence must be interpreted in that light. What these men have discovered is that by looking at the evidence objectively much of it actually contradicts the theory of evolution.
    It is a very complicated debate that I do not have time to get into in detail. Suggested reading should include Darwin on Trial by Phillip E Johnson, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis written by Michael Denton and Michael J. Behe’s must read Darwin’s Black Box.
    Francis Collins PHD was the scientist who lead the Human Genome Project (the human DNA map that CSI builds their evidence around). After he finished this ground historic groundbreaking project he sat down and wrote, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief. Though he is more of a theistic evolutionist he is just another in the growing list of scientists that are discovering that the evidence clearly points to a Creator.

  18. Student says:

    This is an interesting debate one that can be full of emotion because of the perceived implications it has. One the one side if creationism is true, a lot of scienctific theory will absolutely fall apart. On the other hand, if evolution is true, then some believe that this would make the Bible false.

    The reason I post on here is just a word of caution because this creationist/evolutionist debate actually made me leave the church for a number of years. I really felt like I was backed into a corner from the church; I either had to pick the church’s view on this to be a true Christian, or if I sided with science I could no longer call myself a Christian. I do agree with the creationist that the hardcore evolutionist theories do have holes in them. For example, for a being as complex as human beings, their gross anatomy structure and even more so on the molecular side, we are very ordered beings. This is breaks the fundamental law of thermodynamics which states that all things tend towards disorder (parents could relate to this as children seem to pull out all their toys you just put away 2 minutes beforehand).

    However, on the other hand, creationist also have a lot to explain away in the evolutionist theory. For example, radioactive dating is seen as a “gold standard” test. I myself have studied this test, and it’s ability to date substances seems very reliable. Also, I have watched Ken Hovind’s videos, and I must admit he does skew the truth or omits facts to satisfy his argument.

    Personally, I fall in the middle of the spectrum. As a scientist I look at the evidence of evolution and some of it is very compelling. Also some of the theories presented I think are totally ridiculous (on both sides of the argument). You may call me a watered down Christian for believing that parts of evolutionary theory are true, and that’s fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Pastor Mark would probably know more about this than I, but I do believe the Hebrew word for day as used in genesis has two definitions. One is a 24 hour period that we call a “day.” The other defintion is “a period of time”. So was the earth created in 7 literal days, or 7 periods of time so to speak?

    This comment is getting too long so I will end with this. This debate, although important, I don’t think is THE most important debate to be having. I think any human being has to ultimately answer three fundamental questions: Does God exist? Is what Christ said about himself being the Messiah true? and if those both being true, will I pick up my cross and follow HIM? My answers to all three of these is yes.

    My point, please don’t assume that those who believe in parts of evolutionary theory are not Christian. By the same token those who are evolutionist shouldn’t believe those who believe in creationism to be stupid. And although this is an important debate, I don’t think it’s THE most important conversation to focus on. There are plenty of areas I’m sure we can all agree on as Christians (and even non-Christians) ex helping the poor which Jesus spent a great deal talking about.

  19. Tamara says:

    Personally, what I find so very sad is how many Christians seem so willing to toss their Bibles in the garbage if the first two chapters of Genesis aren’t literal. It makes me want to ask, who is Jesus Christ in your life? Doesn’t God live and move and have His being in you? Hasn’t He set you free, transformed you, heard your prayers, stood with you in the fire, walked with you in the valley, lifted you out of the dust, LOVED you?? If our faith is hinged upon a literal interpretation of the first two chapters in the first book of the Bible, then perhaps we are not rooted where we should be?

    In the ancient Near East people weren’t concerned with whether or not they were created by God… they were concerned with the question of which god had made them. The Bible tells me the truth… that Yahweh made me… and then it sets about telling me Who exactly Yahweh is. The Lord God made me; He is Good, and what He makes is good. The God of all hope made me. The God of unfailing love, perfect truth, infinate mercy, enduring faithfulness… He’s the Author of my life. The God who lives to save me is my Creator. I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and in some mysterious, miraculous way I bear His image. I did not exist before, but then He breathed His life into me, and now I exist with life abundant, and with a purpose and a plan for my life. I was created to know Him, to bring Him pleasure, to glorify Him, to love and be loved by Him. In light of this, ‘when’, ‘where’ and ‘how’ are questions that are quite honestly irrelevant to my faith. I don’t believe in God simply because the Bible tells me God is real… I believe in God because He IS real, and He has proved Himself in ways that science or scholarship cannot ever hope to measure. It is beyond reason. It is by faith.

  20. Derek says:

    I also agree with those above who believe that this debate is not the most important one we have. Many times it seems this debate seems to serve its own purpose of being debatable, but accomplish little more. I do not believe we need to solve it, in order to know what our purpose is in life – to be redeemed of our sins by Christ and be obedient to him in our lives.
    As a person of science I have struggled with the question of evolution. Its only a theory, but that is misleading. A theory in common language just means an opinion. A theory in the scientific context is actually the strongest level of certainty that exists. After much observation, fact collection and experimentation and many years of criticism and rigorous peer-review, something may become a ‘theory’. A theory is in fact a conclusion of sorts, not a hypothesis. To be even more clear, in the world of science, a theory is a stronger statement than a fact. This language barrier alone is probably responsible for much of the confusion in the debate.
    I strongly agree that the TOE has many holes, but a problem we sometimes have as Christians is understanding what exactly it claims, and what those holes are, so we misidentify them and then try comment on our own new construction of the theory. Most do not understand what evolution claims, for example it does not claim that anything just burst into existence, or that the process involved anything similar to shaking up a bag and forming a watch as is popularly analogized. As an immediate example from the blog – punctuated equilibrium is wrongly described, and wrongly called punctuated ‘evolution’. Does any of this weaken the bible? No. And most certainly it does not make the TOE any more true, but it should remind us that we should know that of which we speak.
    There’s no question that many in secular world treat the TOE like their religion, something to justify their own actions as beyond the scope of right and wrong. This does not mean the theory is without evidence, but simply that many need it to be true even if it had none.
    Antagonism with the scientific community I do not believe can bring people to Christ. Personifying Christ to our community will bring them to Christ. Why? – because that’s why Christ said it would do. The amount of people won to Faith in God from acts of love compared to arguments is a towering ratio. The message that we are broken but that there is hope, and its all designed by one who loves us very much, is extremely powerful. That penetrates the hurt and arrogance that the devil would rather we cling to. The emotion-based fight over TOE and how it fits or doesn’t with this or that hebrew translation, should possibly be more of a side note.

  21. Steve says:

    I agree with you Derek about us showing love to atheists and evolutionists. You are right that arguing about scientific facts does absolutely nothing. Even if you totally prove the other argument false this just usually antagonizes the other person and this will encourage them to fight against you even more.
    I work with this guy who knows I am a Christian and obviously can’t stand this about me. I used to respond angrily when he used Jesus’ name like a dishrag in front of me to mock my faith. He repeatedly screams the Lord’s name in vein and then smiles at me. This used to really get my goat but the Lord started to show me I needed to show him love. He always yells out the word mickey when someone messes up in their work meaning they owe him a mickey of whiskey. I’d joke with him that I probably owed him about 600 mickey’s already and he’d agree with a smile. So one day I went to work and of course when I got there he yells MICKEY! This time I actually had one for him. I said well here you go then. He couldn’t believe his eyes. He didn’t know what to do. And I could tell that he was even a little touched. I know it was booze but I knew it was what God wanted me to do. He’s never been able to talk to me the same. I guess it’s true about heaping coals of fire.
    I know this has nothing to do with evolution arguments but loving evolutionists and atheists in the same way is what is going to change their perspective not proving them wrong.

  22. Riley says:

    Hello Pastor Mark, thanks for replying ["Evolutionists love to insult creationists as being scientifically or historically ignorant if they believe the biblical account of creation. What they don’t know is that the Intelligent Design movement is not being lead by a bunch of bible thumpers but brilliant scientists and academics that have come to question the “circular reasoning” of evolution."]

    I sincerely apologize if you felt like I was attempting to insult you. I wasn’t. I am familiar with some of the books you mention and I am familiar with the Discovery Institute and I know that the people you mention might mean well but their work is full of many factual errors and largely ignored by real experts in the field. I likewise don’t want to get into the details of arguing about creationism versus evolution — that argument is over and even the Catholic and Anglican churches accept evolution (albeit, obviously, theistic evolution).

    To rephrase my primary question … why does it matter if the Bible is literally true, or not? (It obviously isn’t) Simply arguing that the Bible is true because the Bible says so is utterly unconvincing. Why not acknowledge the errors — factual, moral, scientific — in the Bible and get on with extending even more love and good works than your church already does (and your church already does a lot of that, in many excellent ways … my late father in law lived in Toronto and found your TV show entertaining and edifying, for example, and you have some really good youth programs, from what I can tell — and you have fun, which is great (I grew up in a church where fun was not allowed in any form, but it was also a church that literally said if a subject wasn’t discussed in the Bible, then maybe Humans weren’t meant to know about it. Really.)

    So what brings people to your style of church? Is it just a feeling? The widsom of crowds? What? I really wish I could be a part of something like what you’re offering — I miss the community and tradition of my former church since I lost the faith about 10 years ago. So I thought maybe I would try and get some sense of where Church of the Rock folks are ‘at’ on this blog discussion.

  23. Riley says:

    I re-read my original post and I have to apologize again. I can see how it could have come across as insulting. My language was a bit sweeping and could easily be interpreted as condescending. I am just trying to understand where evangelical Christians are coming from and I thought I would start by looking here.

  24. Steve says:

    Riley, you weren’t talking to me but I thougt I’d just throw this in for you to think about. In the Bible there are (I’m pretty sure) 60 old testament prophecies that prophesy about Jesus. For Jesus to fulfill 8 of those prophesies the odds are 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. If you had this many silver dollars you could cover the state of texas two feet deep. But Jesus fulfilled all of the old testament prophecies. Jesus is the only reason to live because He is the Savior, He is Lord over all and He payed the ultimate price for our sins. Let Jesus reveal His Spirit to you and He will give you understanding of things that never made any sense to you. If you allow Him, He will make you His dwelling place and come and live in you.

  25. Mark Hughes says:

    Riley
    No apology necessary. However I am calling you on this one. You say you are familiar with the books I mentioned. I don’t believe you! Your comments on them are straight out of Wikipedia. Go pick up at least one of these titles and read it for yourself. They are not full of factual errors. Those are lame attempts by their critics to discredit their work. The men I referenced are smarter than you and I could ever hope to be. Collins is one of the most esteemed scientists in the entire world.
    It is really not a matter of religion needing to catch up with science, but science to catch up with scripture. The list of biblical truths that science is just figuring out now is far too long to write about here. That is why you need to go read about it for yourself. Arguing the point without the facts is an excercise in futility.

  26. Karen says:

    We all need to believe that the Bible is the literal truth.(and I do, let’s just make that clear). I think that God is loving this debate, it makes people think, but I believe that there are some things that we cannot comprehend, and God is not going to make it clear to us until we are with Him in heaven. God doesn’t want us to solve all of His mysteries! If we did, we wouldn’t need God or salvation or grace.
    Nothing irritates me faster than two Christians arguing about evolution/creation in front of non believers. What kind of a Christ centered image of Christians does that present? Not a very unified one that’s for sure!
    I love it when somebody comes up with some new scientific fact or discovery, not because I want to dispute creation. I love it because it gives me another opportunity to thank God for all he has given to me, all he has shown me and for all of the the things that He has waiting for me to discover. I appreciate all of the science documentaries, only to be amazed once again by God’s handiwork. I can hardly wait to get to heaven, so I can have all of my questions answered.

  27. Tamara says:

    I like what you said, Karen. I do wonder how much unity has to do with all of us agreeing with one another (which we obviously don’t and won’t ever), and how much it has to do with the respect and grace we give to one another when we disagree. I love the verse in the Bible that reads, ‘Let God be true, and every man a liar’. (We can take that literally, or we can add women to the mix, too. Lol.) I think Christians should be marked by a love for Truth, when God is the Truth we are speaking of… but too often I am myself guilty of loving ‘truth’, and that is generally where the problems come in. Paul, who was himself highly educated, wrote, ‘I professed to know NOTHING among you EXCEPT Christ crucified.’ (2 Cor 2??)

  28. Mike says:

    Oh how quaint! A pastor trying to educate well educated and trained scientists! So, what training do you have to comment on the complexities of biology? What understanding do you have of evolution, because reading over this post, it seems that you are clearly clueless. Tell you what, stay out of the science lab and the science classrooms of our nation, and we will stay out of your narrow minded, bigoted and hate filled churches.

  29. Steve says:

    Hey Mike, nobody hates you or scientists. God loves you and wants to show you who He is. Sure you’ll find some annoying people wherever you go, and not going to say church isn’t one of those places. But what you want to find out is who is God? And am I missing out by not having a relationship with this amazing creator? Because really, He’s pretty amazing. When I feel His spirit on me there is nothing more beautiful. He is awsome and you got to get some of what He’s got for you. You will not be dissapointed if you truly put your trust in Christ.

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